Recent Episodes

March 4, 2024 Clause 8: UPC Judge Michael Fleuchaus and Dr. Benjamin Grau on Europe’s New Unified Patent Court

In this special two-part episode of Clause 8, Eli delves into the creation, implementation, and strategic importance of Europe’s new Unified Patent Court (UPC) with UPC Judge Michael Fleuchaus and Dr. Benjamin Grau. Since the 1970s, European policy makers have dreamed of a common European patent court. That dream finally became a reality last year, in June of 2023, with the formation of the UPC. Most observers predicted that it would not only become the central court for patent enforcement in Europe but also the go-to destination for enforcing patents worldwide.  Since its inception, prospective litigants have understandably wanted to learn as much as possible about how the UPC would operate in practice and whether the dream would match reality. Fortunately, Judge Fleuchaus – one of the early UPC appointees – and European patent attorney Dr. Grau joined Eli for this special two-part episode of the Clause 8 podcast to discuss the creation, implementation, and role of the UPC from the vantage point of its operation in the first year.

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December 22, 2023 Clause 8: U.S. Chamber Resetting the Narrative on IP Rights in America

On this episode of the Clause 8 podcast, Patrick Kilbride and returning guest Brad Watts join Eli Mazour to talk about the U.S. Chamber’s new initiative, the current narrative on IP rights and the forces that shaped it, the themes of the IP Principles document, and what they hope to accomplish. They also discuss why the U.S. Chamber cares so much about IP issues, whether patents are underappreciated compared to other IP rights, and much more!

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December 14, 2023 Clause 8: Matteo Sabattini on How Licensing Ignites a Virtuous Cycle of Innovation

Innovators that invest in R&D are the driving force behind today’s rapidly evolving technological landscape. However, implementers that rely on – and as a result benefit from – those innovations to sell their own products and services aren’t usually eager to pay those innovators. But by paying the innovators, the implementers are actually helping make sure that the cycle of innovation continues. Matteo Sabattini, the new President and Chief Licensing Officer of Convida, joins Eli on this episode of the Clause 8 podcast to talk about this important dynamic.

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December 8, 2023 Clause 8: Ed Murgitroyd on Disrupting IP Services and Leading a Publicly Traded IP Law Firm

In 1975, Ian Murgitroyd founded his own firm in Glasgow, Scotland after stumbling into the patent field.  He could not have imagined that it would become one of the world’s biggest IP service providers, let alone that it would make history by being the first and only law firm to be listed on the London Stock Exchange or later be acquired by a private equity firm for £63 million.

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December 4, 2023 Clause 8: Ofinno’s Story of Surviving and Thriving in the Patent Monetization Space

What is a patent worth? What makes patents valuable? Patent practitioners, valuation experts, and academics spend a lot of time thinking about and debating these questions. But they rarely get fully tested. Most patents are never litigated or licensed. Settlement negotiations and licensing agreements are often driven by factors that aren’t related to the worth of any individual patent. The latest judicial decisions provide some hints at the answers to these questions, but also frequently lead to overreaction and confusion.

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November 21, 2023 Clause 8 Special Episode: IP Attorney Amit Soussana Taken Hostage by Terrorists in Gaza

Amit Soussana is an IP attorney at one of Israel’s leading IP firms, Luzzato and Luzzatto. She is also one of more than 240 people – including babies, children, women, the elderly, and the disabled – who were brutally taken hostage by terrorists from Gaza on October 7. More than 40 days later, almost all of them are still being held hostage. 

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November 16, 2023 Clause 8: Addressing ‘Patent Eligibility Stress Disorder’ and Embracing the AI Future

Attorneys are, by nature, skeptical and risk averse. I was repeatedly reminded of this over the last few months listening to discussions about using AI for patent practice and Senators Thom Tillis (R-NC) and Chris Coons’ (D-DE) latest effort to fix the patent eligibility mess (via the Patent Eligibility Restoration Act (PERA) of 2023). Amid the initial excitement over ChatGPT’s launch, IP attorneys rightfully turned their attention to the risks and pitfalls of using AI. However, I was surprised about the extent to which that became the focus of conversations regarding using AI for patent practice. Although I think – like in most other professional fields –patent attorneys have accepted the notion that AI will play a major role in their practice at some point in the distant future, the general consensus seems to be that the risks are too great, and the payoff is too small for that to happen anytime soon.

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August 1, 2023 Clause 8 Podcast: Exclusive Interview with Judge Pauline Newman’s Attorney, Greg Dolin

When Judge Pauline Newman helped create the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in 1982 to have exclusive jurisdiction over patent cases, no one could have guessed the drama that would follow almost 40 years later.. The drama, in her view, is now forcing her to choose preserving the entire structure of American government over the court she loves. In April, Gene Quinn broke the news on IPWatchdog about a complaint filed by Chief Judge Kimberly Moore of the Federal Circuit against Newman for being unable to effectively discharge the duties of her office. Days later, Newman showed up and spoke at Fordham Law School’s annual IP conference in New York, speaking with an eloquence that completely undermined the foundation of that complaint.

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July 26, 2023 Special Clause 8 Episode: If X (Still Twitter through Sunday) Sues – with Gaston Kroub

Will Twitter’s meager patent portfolio doom Musk’s hopes of “strictly enforcing” Twitter’s IP rights? Eli is joined by return guest Kroub on this special episode to discuss how an unprecedented IP dispute between two of the world’s richest men might play out. In response to Meta successfully launching Threads, Musk’s go to lawyer Alex Spiro sent a letter to Mark Zuckerberg expressing “serious concerns that Meta…has engaged in systematic, willful, and unlawful misappropriation of Twitter’s trade secrets and other intellectual property” and intention to “strictly enforce its intellectual property rights.”  Although the letter focuses on trade secrets, Spiro’s colleagues are likely busy mining Twitter’s patent portfolio.

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July 18, 2023 Clause 8: Former USPTO General Counsel Nick Matich on Rulemaking and the PTAB

 U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) Director Kathi Vidal’s decision to issue the Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPRM) is the latest major controversy surrounding the Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB). The America Invents Act (AIA) created the PTAB and new post-grant proceedings to supposedly provide a cheaper, faster alternative to district court patent litigation. However, the PTAB quickly became known as the patent “death squad” that allows defendants to repeatedly use the post-grant proceedings to challenge the same patents until those patents are invalidated…. Nicholas Matich, who is now Principal at McKool Smith, joins the Clause 8 Podcast to share his unique perspective about the ANPRM.

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June 21, 2023 Clause 8: Shawn Lillemo on Building Software Tools for a Patent Firm in the Age of AI

Will Artificial Intelligence (AI) replace patent attorneys? “No, but someone using AI will,” says Shawn Lillemo on this episode of the Clause 8 podcast. The public launch of ChatGPT has spurred endless conversations like this about the role that technology will play in the legal profession. Eli Mazour’s colleague, Shawn, has spent more than five years thinking about the topic in his unique role as head of software development at their patent preparation and prosecution firm, Harrity, which had less than two dozen attorneys when Shawn joined.

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May 30, 2023 Clause 8: Joff Wild on Founding IAM for Chief IP Officers and EU Commission’s Anti-SEP Crusade

“It became obvious to me that IP was a lot more than laws and court decisions and regulations,” says Joff Wild of IAM on the latest episode of Clause 8. “IP was becoming a fundamental business asset, one that people could use to generate profits, build partnerships, go out into the markets, and raise cash. But no one was writing about that there was no coverage of that. So that said, to me, there was an opportunity to create something new.” Wild joins Eli from “across the pond” on this episode of the Clause 8 podcast to talk about founding, editing, and growing IAM.

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May 25, 2023 Clause 8: Tom Irving on Litigating the First Hatch-Waxman Case and Mentoring Thousands in the Patent Field

If you’ve ever attended a major intellectual property (IP) conference and found yourself captivated by an exceptional performance during a review of recent patent court decisions, chances are you witnessed the unmatched expertise and passion of Tom Irving. After over 47 years of focusing on pharmaceutical patents, Tom has the unique vantage point of someone who saw the field explode after the passage of the Hatch-Waxman Act and the creation of the Federal Circuit.  Widely regarded as a legend of the patent bar and a virtuoso of Federal Circuit decisions, Tom Irving has made an indelible mark on the legal profession.

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May 1, 2023 Clause 8: Tim Pohlmann on Founding IPlytics and Hosting The SEP Couch

Cellular technology continues to transform the world. That would not be possible without innovative companies investing billions of dollars in research and development (R&D) to come up with innovations that make up transformational standards, such as 5G, and obtaining standard essential patents (SEPs) based on those innovations. Over the last 15 years, many companies that sell products based on those standards have invested heavily in trying to pay as little as possible for relying on those innovations. That latter investment has spurred global litigation campaigns, heated debates, endless amounts of lobbying, and questionable actions by regulators. Tim Pohlmann has seen the growth of these disagreements up close: initially, while working for the German government, and then as an economist who wrote his doctoral thesis on patenting and standardization.

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April 20, 2023 Clause 8 Podcast: HTIA’s David Jones on Winning in Washington

Lucky or that good? David Jones’ time as Executive Director of the High-Tech Inventors Alliance (HTIA), which advocates on patent policy issues on behalf of some of the largest tech companies in the world, suggests that he’s both when it comes to shaping America’s patent system. However, he’s way too modest and strategically wise to take credit or even accept the premise of that question. “I appreciate you saying we’ve had a winning streak. It doesn’t quite feel that way. To me, it feels to me like we’ve kind of clawed our way back to approaching neutral,” Jones says on the latest episode of Clause 8.

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About This Podcast

Clause 8 – The Voice of IP

The podcast listened to by sophisticated Chief IP Counsel, Federal Circuit and Unified Patent Court judges, senior government officials, and top patent dealmakers to stay ahead of the curve by understanding the personalities and forces shaping IP.

Eli Mazour’s love of talking to people – along with his belief in the importance of America’s patent system –  led him to start the Clause 8 podcast.  Clause 8 features conversations that provide strategic insights about how to best deal with various patent-related issues. Some of the previous guests include America’s great innovators, federal judges, USPTO Directors, top IP staffers on Capitol Hill, and Carole Baskin’s attorney from the documentary Tiger King.

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